Beach Read: "The Next Conversation"
A crash course in communication
One conversation can either strengthen a relationship or start to unravel it.
Most of us don’t wake up intending to say the wrong thing, yet we’ve all replayed conversations in our heads, wishing we’d responded with more wisdom, more clarity, or fewer words. Healthy communication is a skill we all need to practice.
That’s why Austin Conner, PLPC, chose The Next Conversation: Argue Less and Talk More by Jefferson Fisher as his Beach Read for Real Life. Rather than offering vague advice to “communicate better,” Fisher gives practical tools you can start using immediately. Drawing from his experience as a trial lawyer, he shows how communication skills can dramatically change the outcome of our conversations and improve our relationships.
Listen in as Austin explores the timeless wisdom behind Fisher’s ideas through the lens of Scripture. You’ll discover that for Christians, communication isn’t just a personality trait or a professional skill; it’s part of being a disciple. Every conversation becomes an opportunity to pursue peace, practice ‘good works’, and reflect the character of Christ to the people around you.
Highlights from this Episode
For many of us, summer means taking some time to relax—maybe going to the mountains, maybe to the beach, or just sitting on the porch with a good book.
Today, the book I’m going to recommend for your summer downtime is a called The Next Conversation: Argue Less and Talk More by Jefferson Fisher. This book is worth reading because it clearly and practically connects the dots on how to communicate with others in many scenarios that we all experience, including conflict in the workplace and in relationships.
Jefferson Fisher is a lawyer who rose to prominence after he created a 47-second video on Facebook called “How to Argue like a Lawyer Part 1”. He posted the video and went to bed. He woke up, went to work, and then checked it that night. The views were in the millions.
He realized people were eager to communicate more clearly. But what was missing was the practicalities of how to actually do that. Perhaps you are in the same boat. You know the importance of engaging in healthy, adult conversation with your friends and family. If you’ve got kids, part of your role as a parent is to help them communicate appropriately, with kindness.
Where you might struggle is in the practical aspect of communicating with kindness and wisdom. But it’s worth putting some work into, because our words matter. They can take root in our hearts and minds and have a ripple effect on those around us.
Win Less, Connect More
Fisher has a lot of great, actionable advice in his book, including principles, skills, practices, and strategies. It might seem a bit overwhelming, but stick with me as we go through this together, because it will all come together in the end.
In order to communicate more effectively, Fisher has 3 principles to follow:
1: Never win an argument
This one might take you by surprise, because you’ve always assumed that winning an argument is a good thing. But Fisher says that when you win a point, you often lose the relationship, respect, or trust of the other person. Instead, he advocates for shifting the goal to understanding, by finding common ground, validating the other person, and de-escalating the conversation.
2: Start thinking about the next conversation
When you think about the next conversation, all sorts of pressures lift:
You don’t HAVE to say everything
You don’t HAVE to say everything perfectly
You don’t HAVE to let your initial response be your final response
Instead, when you assume there will be a next conversation, you can be more present with the other person. You have a better ability to listen and summarize what the person is saying, rather than half-listening to them while you formulate your next response.
3: Connection over transmission
Transmission is simply saying something without regard for the other party. It’s a one-way street. But connection keeps the other person(s) in mind. Connection is a pretty broad term, but Fisher narrows it down and defines it as “a word for understanding and acknowledgement.” And you have to have both to have true connection.
If you understand but don’t acknowledge that to the other person, you’re not connecting with them. If you acknowledge what the other person is saying but don’t understand it, you’re not connecting with them. Instead, you should acknowledge and seek to understand; keep in mind, this doesn’t mean you have to agree.
Three Skills that Change Conversations
1. Learn to control yourself. People are going to say things that make you feel angry, frustrated, sad, anxious, annoyed, and hurt. When that happens, you go into fight or flight mode, and your thinking brain goes offline.
To mitigate this, Fisher explains the importance of making your first word your breath. Take a deep breath in and a deep breath out. He says, “When you’re triggered you’re either going to speed up or lock up. But those initial two seconds get your breathing back under control.”
2. Say things with confidence. There are 2 ways to do this: use your assertive voice and manage difficult people well.
How do you use your assertive voice? Fisher offers 3 simple practices that can make a surprisingly big difference.
Remember that every word matters. Instead of saying, “I just wanted to touch base on the outline,” simply say, “I wanted to touch base on the outline.” Instead of, “I’m sort of wondering if I should ask the team,” say, “I’ll ask the team.” Extra qualifiers like just, sort of, and maybe weaken your message. Saying things directly doesn’t make you rude; it makes you clear.
Prove your assertiveness to yourself. One of Fisher’s best suggestions is to state your next step out loud and then follow through. Say, “I’m moving forward from this conversation.” “I’m setting a reminder.” Every time you do what you said you were going to do, you strengthen your own sense of agency.
Express your needs unapologetically. In counseling, I’ve found this to be one of the hardest skills for people to develop, but it’s also one of the most transformative. Practice beginning sentences with, “I need.” “I need a moment.” “I need to speak with you.” “I need your help.” Those words may feel uncomfortable at first, but they’re healthy.
You also need to know what to do when someone crosses the line by insulting you, belittling you, or behaving disrespectfully. These 4 strategies will help you handle it well:
Deflect or ignore it. Don’t give the other person a dopamine hit by reacting.
Give it a long pause. Allow their words to echo back to them.
Slowly repeat their words. Make sure they hear what they just said.
Ask a question of outcome. This type of question seeks to highlight and project the reaction that they tried to elicit. For example, “Did you want that to hurt?” or “Did you want that to embarrass me?” These questions will help the difficult person see the foolishness of their statements so they can make changes and even apologize.
3. Say it to connect. Throughout the book, Fisher reminds us that great conversations begin with great listening. Most of us listen to respond. Instead, he encourages us to listen to learn by reflecting back what we heard: “So you felt overlooked when that decision was made. Did I get that right?”
Another recurring theme is the importance of validating emotions without immediately judging or correcting them. A phrase like, “I can see why that would be frustrating,” communicates empathy and helps people feel heard. Fisher also recommends expressing your own perspective with statements like, “I felt... when... because...” so you can be honest without attacking the other person.
Finally, Fisher emphasizes that connection is shaped not only by what we say, but by how and where we say it. Because meaningful conversations depend on presence, he recommends having important discussions face-to-face whenever possible.
Communication as Discipleship
In Matthew 5:9, Jesus says, “Blessed are the peacemakers.” Practicing the strategies, habits, and principles in this book can be a tangible way you can “be a peacemaker.” Rather than stir up strife, or continue a conflict, make peace with those around you.
In Ephesians 2:10, Paul says, “We are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand for us to do.” Communicating with wisdom and intentionality can be a form of ‘good works’ that God wants you to do.
When you learn how to communicate calmly, clearly, and with kindness, you are being a peacemaker and practicing good works. You are cooperating with the ways God is at work in the world around you. So as you lay on a beach, a couch, or a porch this summer, consider picking up The Next Conversation: Argue Less and Talk More.
Recommended Resource
The Next Conversation: Argue Less and Talk More by Jefferson Fisher